You only need to look at the CCTV example and the 'impact' that it has had on crime to see the issue with Digital ID. If being a citizen of the most surveilled state in Europe meant that burglary, mugging, shop-lifting and sexual assault were a thing of the past - as opposed to reaching epidemic proportions - that would be one thing, but experience shows that policing resources and priorities, together with a failing justice system, are not functional deterrents to crime, irrespective of the number of cameras watching our every move. So too with Digital ID: It's only going to be as useful as the authorities themselves want it to be, for the purposes that they want it, which is unlikely to be to the public good.
Why we should have digital ID: (1) The politicians want it; (2) You can always trust politicians, including the ones who will replace the current ones; (3) There will be all sorts of built-in safeguards which will no doubt be completely secure against any potential change of policy or leadership by any imaginable future government; (4) It has been unbelievably successful in preventing mass immigration to European countries which already have ID systems [No, I know it hasn't, in case you're not keeping up with my meaning here!]; (5) No databases have ever been hacked by malevolent or criminal forces. So just say Yes Sir and put your feet up and relax and have a drink of that water that they aren't yet putting drugs in to keep the population all calmed down. Sorry, giving them ideas there, but of course we can trust the absolute wisdom and benevolence of Our Leaders and their motivations. Always. Oh, and (6) Jesus wanted digital ID cards for the Kingdom of God, just in case it didn't work. The case for the prosecution rests. I would however like someone to provide me with a list of countries I could move to, countries which has utterly rejected digital ID schemes, just in case I have to leave.
I think we would need to both look at specific instances of modern life where you have a concern about someone impersonating you or defrauding you and believing that this id card (albeit not digital) protects you. I personally do not see the need for it. I rarely have to prove my identity and certainly not on a regular basis. For buying or selling a house? (Passport or driving licence + utility bill) Buying a car? (Driving licence) Getting a job (NI number).......
In some ways an ID card is an easy thing to steal or lose or fake whereas your NI number? No. You don't carry your passport around and probably only useful with some bills with your address on, so that's more secure.
Can you or someone else take one step back and explain to me why do you oppose ID system? I live in Poland, which has ID and voluntary digital ID (yes, it’s convenient) and I genuinely don’t see any downsides. It’s good to be able to verify that this person is indeed this person.
Right.....and if you've got nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear, eh? When it is connected to digital currency and suddenly you own nothing, except at the whim of your digital Masters? Plus, who is the boss of you? You are a sovereign being and shouldn't have to prove your 'identity' (which is a legal fiction anyway) to anyone. You have been conditioned into serfdom.
I don’t want to find out that someone stole my documents or did transactions in my name because identity wasn’t verified and ID cards are meant for that verification
1 im not talking about digital ID 2 it doesn’t work like that? You identify yourself with ID card when you testify in court, do something in notary or the office, access documents with restricted access. I genuinely can’t see how you can do those things without some verification that indeed it’s you and not someone claiming to be you and don’t see any downsides of that system.
But we already have drivers' licences and passports and National Insurance numbers and credit cards or debit cards or library cards or office ID or utility bills. Plus anything optional is a soft launch - it inevitably becomes obligatory.
okay, but only drivers have drivers licence, only people who want to travel somewhere have passports, only people signed up to library have library cards and national insurance number isn’t good enough verification. ID card doesn’t require you to participate in other things in order to access functions of the state.
Well there you have it - "access the functions of the state". They control you! They take your money well enough without an ID card, so they can damn well provide the 'services' they are supposed to organise in return without one.
We haven't needed an ID card to be permitted to exist up until now. With respect, as you are Polish, you perhaps do not have ingrained in you the sentiment that is seared into the soul of every Briton which is: "I am not a number, I am a free man". We don't like being told what to do.
I really don’t see how this limits my freedom in any way. My comments above points to basic connection to the state that doesn’t depend on other institutions of any kind, so it’s less data involved. Like I don’t need to have bank account or driver licence to function in society. Also it contributes to high trust society, because you have certainty of operations.
You only need to look at the CCTV example and the 'impact' that it has had on crime to see the issue with Digital ID. If being a citizen of the most surveilled state in Europe meant that burglary, mugging, shop-lifting and sexual assault were a thing of the past - as opposed to reaching epidemic proportions - that would be one thing, but experience shows that policing resources and priorities, together with a failing justice system, are not functional deterrents to crime, irrespective of the number of cameras watching our every move. So too with Digital ID: It's only going to be as useful as the authorities themselves want it to be, for the purposes that they want it, which is unlikely to be to the public good.
It's when currency becomes digital that it becomes truly frightening because the two will be linked. Total slave system.
Why we should have digital ID: (1) The politicians want it; (2) You can always trust politicians, including the ones who will replace the current ones; (3) There will be all sorts of built-in safeguards which will no doubt be completely secure against any potential change of policy or leadership by any imaginable future government; (4) It has been unbelievably successful in preventing mass immigration to European countries which already have ID systems [No, I know it hasn't, in case you're not keeping up with my meaning here!]; (5) No databases have ever been hacked by malevolent or criminal forces. So just say Yes Sir and put your feet up and relax and have a drink of that water that they aren't yet putting drugs in to keep the population all calmed down. Sorry, giving them ideas there, but of course we can trust the absolute wisdom and benevolence of Our Leaders and their motivations. Always. Oh, and (6) Jesus wanted digital ID cards for the Kingdom of God, just in case it didn't work. The case for the prosecution rests. I would however like someone to provide me with a list of countries I could move to, countries which has utterly rejected digital ID schemes, just in case I have to leave.
Spot on, Andrew, as always.
There is a petition against this on the government website
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/730194
currently, over 2.6 million people have signed it
I think we would need to both look at specific instances of modern life where you have a concern about someone impersonating you or defrauding you and believing that this id card (albeit not digital) protects you. I personally do not see the need for it. I rarely have to prove my identity and certainly not on a regular basis. For buying or selling a house? (Passport or driving licence + utility bill) Buying a car? (Driving licence) Getting a job (NI number).......
In some ways an ID card is an easy thing to steal or lose or fake whereas your NI number? No. You don't carry your passport around and probably only useful with some bills with your address on, so that's more secure.
Can you or someone else take one step back and explain to me why do you oppose ID system? I live in Poland, which has ID and voluntary digital ID (yes, it’s convenient) and I genuinely don’t see any downsides. It’s good to be able to verify that this person is indeed this person.
Right.....and if you've got nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear, eh? When it is connected to digital currency and suddenly you own nothing, except at the whim of your digital Masters? Plus, who is the boss of you? You are a sovereign being and shouldn't have to prove your 'identity' (which is a legal fiction anyway) to anyone. You have been conditioned into serfdom.
I don’t want to find out that someone stole my documents or did transactions in my name because identity wasn’t verified and ID cards are meant for that verification
1 im not talking about digital ID 2 it doesn’t work like that? You identify yourself with ID card when you testify in court, do something in notary or the office, access documents with restricted access. I genuinely can’t see how you can do those things without some verification that indeed it’s you and not someone claiming to be you and don’t see any downsides of that system.
But we already have drivers' licences and passports and National Insurance numbers and credit cards or debit cards or library cards or office ID or utility bills. Plus anything optional is a soft launch - it inevitably becomes obligatory.
okay, but only drivers have drivers licence, only people who want to travel somewhere have passports, only people signed up to library have library cards and national insurance number isn’t good enough verification. ID card doesn’t require you to participate in other things in order to access functions of the state.
Well there you have it - "access the functions of the state". They control you! They take your money well enough without an ID card, so they can damn well provide the 'services' they are supposed to organise in return without one.
We haven't needed an ID card to be permitted to exist up until now. With respect, as you are Polish, you perhaps do not have ingrained in you the sentiment that is seared into the soul of every Briton which is: "I am not a number, I am a free man". We don't like being told what to do.
I really don’t see how this limits my freedom in any way. My comments above points to basic connection to the state that doesn’t depend on other institutions of any kind, so it’s less data involved. Like I don’t need to have bank account or driver licence to function in society. Also it contributes to high trust society, because you have certainty of operations.
(Obligatory digital ID system imo is dystopian)